Running Adventure | Durango Skyline Trail Race with Kathleen + Jason Hanley

Sheri Davidson 0:19

hi friends welcome to the wellness inspired podcast. I'm your host, Sheri Davidson and I am here as always with my terrier mix co host Finn. And before we get into this episode, I'd like to say that if you hear a rasp Enos in my voice or if I clear my throat in the intro of this podcast, please excuse me, I have been dealing with a sinus infection. I got it when I came back from Colorado, and I think it was the dryness of the the air in Colorado. And then coming back to Houston, we came back in the Sahara dust cloud that came through here. So I think a combination of just being really dry, and allowing all of the whatever was in that cloud, into my sinuses created a little bit of a problem. So but I'm recovering, but I am a little raspy if you can hear that. And I might clear my throat. So please excuse me, I might even cough so please excuse that as well. But I'm excited about this episode because I'm back with another running adventure. And this time, I have invited my good friends and trail runners Jason and Kathleen on to share the Durango Skyline running adventure with me and you. I did the 30k Jason did the 50k and Kathleen ran the 50 miler, we did the race together. So I thought it would be fun to do an episode together. So I hope you enjoy this. Also, Kathleen is a Doctor of Public Health and she's very passionate about health and well being. And it's always fun when we're out on the trails together because we talk about health, so it's super fun. her dissertation was on sedentary behavior in the workplace, and what would make someone more likely to stick with a workplace physical activity program. We don't get into this conversation on this episode. But please stay tuned because that episode is coming up soon. It will be fun, and I hope you join. So if you're not into trail running, that's okay. There is a lot more in this episode, I will take you on a short journey of Durango to set the stage for our race. Also, Kathleen and Jason share how they started running and what keeps them running. We talk about the importance of movement, and some tips to help you find your ideal movement to keep you active. But before we start a teaser for an upcoming episode, are you familiar with Fung Shui? It is the Chinese art and practice of spatial arrangement and orientation in the relation to the flow of energy or chi to create a sense of balance and harmony. And one important goal of Fung Shui is to promote health and wellness by improving the flow of energy in your environment. So I've invited Frankie Hickson, a Fung Shui practitioner in Houston onto the podcast to talk about the benefits of Fung Shui for help. So please tune in because it's coming up. And last but not least I have an inspiring story for you. I have invited my friend Alma Nelly onto the podcast. Alma was diagnosed with cancer at a young age and lost her leg. Today. She is a triathlete and runner. She is also a longtime advocate of programs and creating community for adolescents and young adult cancer survivors to the young adult advisory council at MD Anderson, as well as she has been an advocate through running and speaking about disabled athletes. I met Alan many years ago volunteering for Achilles international Houston. Achilles is a nonprofit organization for athletes with disabilities. So you might have amputees blind, a lot of the times they will need guides in a race. They will need to they will need extra support. And as a volunteer that's that's what we did. So that's how I met Alma. It's a great organization. I have met many great people doing amazing things and it's very rewarding. So if you're interested in volunteering, I will put the link in the show notes and you can check it out. I think it will be inspiring to have Alma on the podcast to hear her story. It has been a difficult journey, but her resilience to keep going in the face of it all shines bright. I hope you join us in a couple of weeks because I think it'll be a fantastic conversation. Okay, a little prerace roll before we get into our conversation. Most of you know Durango. It is located in the southwest of Colorado, the home of purgatory ski resort. I have been all over Colorado but it was my first time to Durango and this was my first time to experience Colorado in the summer. All other times I've been in the winter. I first learned to ski when I was in college and shortly after I switched to snowboarding because I was also wakeboarding at the time, but my time has been spent in the snow there and it was a different experience. You know, when I think of Colorado, I think of cold or at least cooler weather. In fact, when I was packing for the trip, I only packed pants to run in during the race. And then after getting there, I found it was quite hot. So now I have two pairs of new shorts, lucky me, but Durango sits at about 6512 feet above sea level. The race we ran between 60 570 800 feet and Durango has a wild west history and you really get that sense when you walk through the town, especially in Silverton. You know, I felt like I could feel the saloons there and shoot outs happening in the gravel streets of downtown Silverton. It was super cool. And you know there are many cool things about Durango. But the coolest is the narrow gauge railroad that takes you on a scenic experience from Durango to Silverton, you know National Geographic voted as the number one ride in North America. It climbs 3000 feet over 45 miles along the Animas River. But here's a fun fact the train route started out a long time ago the railroad arrived and Durango and Knight I'm sorry, in 1881. Back then they acknowledged the beautiful experience of the train ride and they promoted it and it is still going today. In fact, you can ride a steam engine if you choose. And another interesting fact that I read was General Palmer back in the day in the 1800s. He wanted the narrow gauge and narrow passenger cars because he wanted to prevent men and women from being able to sleep in the same bed on the train. The narrow passenger cars only have room for a single sleeper bunk on each side. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind this, but I found that an interesting driver of decision. So we were going to take the train ride on Sunday after the race, but it is a full day event and we really didn't have the time. We misjudged and I'm not sure how we miss judge this because we've done this all before. But after the race we were so sore. It took us all morning to get moving. So better. Our friend Maria an incredible tour guide and host suggested we drive. So we drove to Silverton that afternoon for a beer. And then we drove back to Durango stopping at the nugget mountain bar located at the Purgatory resort, and they really did have the best food truck there. Another fun fact I learned about Durango is they are the happiest and the worst dressed city in America. And they celebrate it with the snow down celebration in January. It is one of the biggest and largest winter festivals in the state. And apparently it is a huge costume party with plenty of outdoor fun and activities. And I think I need to experience this and report back to you. So maybe in January, I will head back to Durango for this festival. But if you have not been to Durango or Silverton, what an experience, it is absolutely beautiful. And there are so many things to do there and the people were amazing. So if you haven't been, I recommend you go into Durango and Silverton. All right. Are you ready? Let's do this the Durango Skyline trail race.

Hi, Kathleen. Hi, Jason. Welcome to the wellness inspired podcast. Hey, Sherry.

Jason Hanley 8:37

Thanks for having us. Sherry.

Sheri Davidson 8:39

I invited you guys onto the podcast because a week ago, we did a running adventure. We participated in the inaugural Durango Skyline trail race. And obviously we did it in Durango, Colorado. So we had some challenges there. But it was beautiful. And I like to do adventure reports or race reports on the podcast because Exercise and Movement, it is crucial to our health and well being. And for those that are new, I know running is not for everyone. And that's okay. My goal is to encourage people to find an activity that gives back to them 110% because consistency is what wins the race. Like how it threw that in there. So if you don't stick to an exercise program and a movement program, it's not going to support you and help I talk about that a lot on my podcast. And I feel really grateful that I found trail running because it gives back to me in so many ways it gives to me it gives me adventure exploration, community, nature, movement, traveling and culture. So I'm really grateful that I found trail running and this is the first time I have concluded anyone on my running adventure or my race reports. So I expect it will be a lot of fun but we did the race together. So I thought it would be fun to to talk about it together. So So let's start by telling everybody a little bit about you and who you are. And for the listeners, I would like to talk a little bit about how you started running it. What keeps you running? So I don't know who wants to go first. Why do you How did you start running and who and what keeps you running?

Kathleen Hanley 10:20

Sure, I can go first. So I am a trail runner, but I also have my Doctorate in Public Health. And so some health is something I'm pretty passionate about. In college, I started running because I was never athletic. It was never involved in sports. But throughout college, a lot of people would either use the elliptical or run outside. And my friend Brian got me into running maybe a couple minutes with him a day. And at some point, I saw a lot of people outside running in all shapes and sizes, and I wondered if that was something I could pick up. So I started running for 30 seconds until I was out of breath. And eventually my uncle convinced me I could run a half marathon. And I did that was that in Florida? That was in Florida. Yeah. So I think Disney was my first half marathon. And after that, I just did marathons for a while. And then my friend Grady talked me into trail running. And so yeah, great. He talks me into trail running, he took us to memorial park trails and my friend James was training for his first 50 miler. So I went out on the trails to train for my first 50k. And so that's how I got involved with the trail running.

Sheri Davidson 11:37

And we should tell people how we met right. I think I met you through Grady. Yes. Yeah. You know how I met Grady was through Heather. Oh, my goodness. Heather Foley. Wow. Um, so I think that was before I met you. You did your first 50 miler before I met you. You did browses. Right.

Kathleen Hanley 11:53

Yeah. Because I met you when I was training for my 100. Yeah, I was training

Sheri Davidson 11:57

for comrades. Yeah. Yeah. That was my first, who was supposed to be my first so yeah, so that's great. And now you fell running

Jason Hanley 12:06

from zero to 30 seconds of running to trail running?

Sheri Davidson 12:10

Yeah, that's how you do it. Right. Jason, what? How did you start running?

Jason Hanley 12:15

So I actually went out for a run when I was in high school with one of my dad's co workers. Her name was Valerie Mfu. And she would go on back in the mid 90s, to become one of the first women if not the first woman to ever hold two world title belts in boxing. Oh, wow. And she a runner, too. She trained. She ran into train. Yeah. And she actually came over to this kid sitting on a couch while some of my dad's co workers were all together working on the charity event. And she said, Hey, you look like you can go for a run with me. Let's go. And I didn't know her. Like, I'd met her like once before. So I was bored. I got up and thought we'd go for a little jog. And we ran all the way down to this water tower and all the way back. And when we got back, I asked her like, How far was that? She said, No, three miles. And that was kind of it. I had ran, you know, before, like you have to NP and stuff like that in school. But that's when I finally figured out like, wow, I may not be the fastest guy out there. But I can I can run a really long time. The next thing I knew I figured out what cross country was and I found like the sport for me. So you did you run cross country? I ran cross country in high school. Yeah, so

Sheri Davidson 13:44

let's just also let the listeners know that I met Kathleen in 2017. I think it was 2017. That sounds about right. Because I think Wait, no, I've heard of him before that cuz I think I did comrades in 2017.

Jason Hanley 14:01

I moved to Texas in 2016. So that's silliness.

Sheri Davidson 14:05

Yeah. And Jason's a trail runner and you guys met on the trail at the Houston haters, right? Yeah. Houston area troll road. show runners show laughs Yeah. And now you're married? Yep. And I was in your wedding. Yeah. So we're family. So that's really cool. So I didn't know that. So I didn't know you did cross country but did okay. Okay.

Jason Hanley 14:32

And kind of had a hiatus and running for a period like around college and everything. And then a little after that, and came back to it trying to find my healthy place again after I'd kind of fallen off for years.

Sheri Davidson 14:47

So what got you into trail running?

Jason Hanley 14:50

So trail running? Well, if you run cross country, a lot of it is supposed to be off of road typically speaking but After high school, a guy in Huntsville, Texas by the name of Ken Johnson, who's like this guy that people from Houston to Huntsville, everybody seems to know who Ken is, if they've been in running for quite a while. Kin got some of us that were of this like late high school age to come to a local running club, like Ron that they had out in Huntsville State Park. And it was just a three mile run that they did once a week. And there was myself and a couple other guys that I don't even remember, like who they were. And we all ran trails for the first time. And that was it. It was beautiful. It was awesome. And after that, like I knew about trail running, I really became consciously aware of it at that point. But it would kind of be a while kind of stewing there. I guess before I really found it as a sport. I went on to do some road running later. And kind of got burned out on the trying to chase personal records and trying to chase these big goals that got you into the next race. And it became where it became not fun anymore. It was more of a task that I had set this new bar I had to live up to. And then I went and did another trail race just kind of randomly to take a break and realized you know what, this is my happy place my Happy Places out in the middle of nowhere, with the birds and the crickets and just straight up run in for fun.

Sheri Davidson 16:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a different experience when you trail runs, and then running on the road. And like you said, chasing cut off times or not cut off times. But chasing PRs and accomplishment chasing cut off times is the podcast that you

Jason Hanley 16:50

Yeah, I got a shout out for because of the race we're about to talk about, I finished two minutes before they cut off so and got third place. And I still got third place.

It was a little bit of a difficult race.

Sheri Davidson 17:04

It was a difficult race. Yeah. So and we're gonna talk about that race, because I want to know, we've talked a little bit about it. We've talked about the difficulty of the terrain and the altitude. So we'll definitely get into that. But I want to know, and I want our listeners to know, what keeps you running.

Jason Hanley 17:21

I guess for me, it's the community running has a really unique community. And whether it's road running, or trail running, I found a lot of support through running, I've met a really diverse group of individuals. And I think the thing that's in common is that we support each other. And we highlight each other's strengths. And I think that's what's really got me to stick with running and trail running. And then there's just the fact that it makes me feel good. And trail running in particular. It's just beautiful. I feel like one with nature, and it feels like home to me. So I think that's what's gotten me stuck with trail running.

Sheri Davidson 18:02

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful out there. It's healing. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely healing.

Jason Hanley 18:09

The the camaraderie is definitely an important factor. I mean, the majority of the friends that we tend to hang around are all related to running in some way. But for me, the really the core of it, is that being out on the trails in the middle of nowhere really kind of centers me back to Mother Nature. And that's where none of the other things really matter anymore. It's just putting one foot in front of the other and seeing what I'm capable of doing. It's it's really a mental health thing for me. It keeps me healthy in my mind. Yeah.

Sheri Davidson 18:51

Now, I agree with both of you. I think the running community is fantastic. And I'm assuming that it's fantastic everywhere. I always say Houston's running community. I haven't really run anywhere else. Florida, Florida was great. And yeah, I think it's just when you get a group of people together doing stuff like that, you just, it's just awesome. You know, and it is very supportive. And that's what that's one of the things that's kept me going with with my running. And now it's just like second nature. Why don't we get into what the race was like? We were supposed to do this after the race. Right in Durango.

Jason Hanley 19:25

We had high expectations for how we would feel right after the race. And that wasn't really the case.

timeline that we had. And

Sheri Davidson 19:34

yeah, it was a little difficult. We were too busy recovering and trying to walk just across the room.

Jason Hanley 19:45

So the other problem was we each did a different race. So Sherry, you did the 30k. And then Jason did the 50k and I did the 50 miler so we all started and finished at different times, but we still did it together.

Sheri Davidson 19:57

Yeah, I still think we did. Yeah. Oh

Jason Hanley 19:59

for sure. sure if that experience was still shared,

Sheri Davidson 20:02

I saw you once on the trail. Oh, yeah,

Jason Hanley 20:04

twice. Remember I came back around. That's

Sheri Davidson 20:07

right. That's right. Yeah, I saw you twice. I had a feeling I might run into you. I did have a feeling. I was wondering if I'd run into you, but I never I never did. I was out there pretty much by myself the whole time. Me too. Different experience most of the time, I have at least one person that that I stick with, but this time, it was just me. What's going on the head? Who picked the right you pick the race?

Jason Hanley 20:33

Yeah, uh, you and I had talked about wanting to do a race, maybe something outside of Texas. And I hadn't been to Colorado before. And so I asked Maria, our friend who moved from Houston to Colorado, actually Durango she if she had any recommendations. And so she said, Oh, there's this Durango Skyline race in my backyard. And we thought it would be cool to do Sherry was on board. And so I was on board that meant Jason was gonna go go with

Sheri Davidson 21:05

Yep. So yeah, we did. We did talk about that. And I love the mountain. So I definitely was was on but I just wish I did better in the altitude. I did talk to a friend of mine today. And he's in he's in between go springs and Durango. So he's like, Why didn't you call me Oh, support you or they just had a baby. And but I didn't realize he was only 40 minutes away. But he told me about a friend that was here that has a gym and they do running underwater. I haven't. I haven't I haven't looked at the link yet. But apparently it's supposed to be good to help train for I guess altitude. I'm interested. Not sure. I need to read up on it. I could be completely wrong about that. But I'll let you know. Yeah, to me today. Let us know. Yeah, to gym here in Houston. But you know, training for altitude is hard to do in Houston because it's so flat here. We don't have 14 foot peaks.

Jason Hanley 22:07

No doubt.

Sheri Davidson 22:08

I was so jealous of Maria. Her her Thursday, is a vacation for me. Her Thursday afternoon is a long planned vacation for me a

Jason Hanley 22:20

dream. It's a dream.

Well, just when we were out on the course to see the local people running there. Oh, they're at that elevation once you're acclimated to it, and it's just nothing to them.

Sheri Davidson 22:31

Nothing, nothing. So jealous. But anyway, so we'll we'll get there. So when you pick the race, I jumped on board, Jason jumped on board. We all we all did it. And Jason, you had COVID before and you've had some long hauler symptoms

Jason Hanley 22:51

I did unfortunately, actually Kathleen and I both got COVID right around Christmas. It didn't really seem to be terribly bad. And Kathleen was fine. And then on the other end of it, I've had issues actually breathing when I run since then, I'm still working with my doctor to try to get to the root of everything. But even when I've been when I've been out running with friends, I can't either keep up quite the same. I can't carry on a conversation at a pace when we should be able to talk to each other. And that, that caused me to go see my doctor and start trying to look into it. I didn't I mean, it's still kind of a work in progress as far as that goes. But that did make this pretty difficult for me. You can hailer right, I did. I used an Albuterol inhaler. But like I was supposed to do that before I run. They they're kind of leaning toward maybe it's like an exercise induced asthma thing going on, at least for now. I'm hoping to get over it. But it has been a drastic change to me going from someone who has always considered themselves pretty competitive. I mean, even though it's more about just being out in nature to me. At the end of the day, like I've got a competitive streak. I want to cut off time. Right? Yeah. So I want to be competitive. I want to push ahead. But this race, this race was something new to me in that I went into it knowing I just needed to go out and not quit basically and not let it beat me. Yeah. So that that made for an interesting day. Yeah, yeah. And you did, did did everything. Everything kind of played out according to plan for me. I was dead last.

Sheri Davidson 24:55

I thought you were second to last.

Jason Hanley 24:57

No, they just kept telling me that keep me going and Originally aid stations, I think we

Sheri Davidson 25:01

were all sick because I was like, I think we were all second to last.

Jason Hanley 25:04

No, no, no, I, I did one better.

Sheri Davidson 25:08

It's Hey, we did it. We did it. He did it. We did it. So tell me about I know, we've talked about our experiences, but our listeners haven't heard. It's just, you know, what did you guys think about the race? And, and give us a little report on that. I know, we all agree that it was a difficult terrain was difficult. The I don't know what what how high did we get? What was the elevation?

Jason Hanley 25:33

was a,

it was close to 7500 with like, the highest. It was a little bit less than 8000. I think. And then I think the total climbing that I did during the race was about 8000. I think the 50k had, like 5000 feet of gain. And I think that 30k had about over 3000 Is that what it was? Yeah.

Sheri Davidson 25:58

I don't remember somebody that I'm thinking 65. I think the range may be okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Jason Hanley 26:07

Yeah. So, I mean, I guess I could kind of start out with my, yeah, didn't come my race in general. So I think everything went according to plan for me, given that my plan was not my typical plan. I told myself going into it to make sure that I was prepared, I had all the right gear, I had all the nutrition on me that I needed. I planned my hydration well. And as I just went through the course, I kind of told myself to just move comfortably as best I could, at any time and to remember, I don't train in this environment. So it's okay to see, you know, other people doing things either faster or maybe without trekking poles at this point. And a lot of them

Sheri Davidson 26:57

did not have trekking poles they didn't.

Jason Hanley 27:01

But but, you know, as the as the day went on, I made the right plays when it got hot. I took my time in places, because I've got a fair bit of experience in warm races kind of my thing. I've been narrow when I all the moves kind of went just as they should all the way through. And I got it done. It was beautiful. There were tons of beautiful views. When I had the chance to go faster, I took full advantage of it. When I needed to play it smart and conserve energy I did when I knew I was going to run low on water just because of the gap between aid stations. I played that smart as well. So I can't say I would change anything about how it went for me. And the people there were wonderful as well, too. That was really great to see. Yeah,

Sheri Davidson 27:56

yeah. Yeah, I thought so too. I mean, I didn't expect it to be as hot. You guys know that because I was going to run pants and I had to go that was strongly encouraged to buy some shorts. So I did. And I was very glad that I bought those shorts. In fact, I didn't even need that long sleeve shirt. I think I took it off maybe even an hour after starting. But I did not expect it to be so hot. As far as the altitude I struggled with altitude before Kathleen and I did Bryce Canyon, she did the 50 miler, and I did the 50k and I did struggle in altitude. And in fact, I kind of started having a panic attack there, but I think it's because I didn't know what was going on with me. And I think it scared me because I could feel my whole pulse like beating throughout my whole body, including my head. You know, like and it was my heart was pounding so hard. I could just say it's scary. Yeah. And then I couldn't move like I literally could not move.

Jason Hanley 28:57

No, that was a Bryce though. Right? It

Sheri Davidson 28:58

was a Bryce. Yeah, I started off. It was a different feeling. I never felt that before. Yeah. And I think I panicked. Unfortunately, this time, I, it wasn't quite as bad. So I did not have a panic attack. So that was nice. And I was able to kind of think about what was happening. But I learned some stuff too. I learned that I need water, like in not a bag full of electrolytes and water. That's really important to me, because I'll stop drinking. So I learned something you learned something on every race to write. But it was beautiful. And I agree that the volunteers were absolutely amazing. The community was absolutely amazing. And I thought it was a really well put on race. And I really enjoyed it. And I enjoyed the views as well. And it was fun. It was fun to do it with you guys.

Jason Hanley 29:51

So if I can ask you in relation to the elevation because that's, I mean, we've been in other mountains and stuff like that. And as you gain that exposure As you learn to deal with it a little differently, did you attack your climbs differently than you did in Bryce? Knowing what you know, now? Did you know No, you were just aware of the fact that you weren't gonna let yourself panic

Sheri Davidson 30:13

about Yeah, I wasn't gonna, well, in my I didn't have the sensation either. It wasn't as strong as it was and Bryce. I mean, I can feel my heart pounding, and I exercise all the time. So I know what it feels like to have your heart racing because of exercise, this was different. And it did it a little bit in Colorado, but not as intense. And so. And then, that was when I went to Sugar Hill. And that's when we emptied my pack out with the electrolytes. And we put just water in it, and I took the electrolyte pills. In that scene, I drink like 10 little glasses of water while I was there. And it seemed to like put a little pep in my step. And my heart wasn't racing. So I don't know what's going on with that. But that was just an observation that I made. But it's in to do better with the water and taking the electrolyte pills, I found out.

Jason Hanley 31:08

I think something that I can say about anytime we're running an altitude or even mountain climbing and stuff like that is like it's still something as experienced as we are down here at sea level. Yeah, it's still something we're learning a little bit about how to deal with. So good job, good job figuring out how to get through that. And I'm sure the next time there'll be another thing learned and

Sheri Davidson 31:33

right, you just keep learning and trying different things. And for the people that don't know, when we run these races, we usually have a hydration pack on our back and we have food and we've got gear, we've got electrolyte pills, especially when it's hot, because we need to make sure we're getting all the electrolytes. So that's what we're that's what we were just talking about. Kathleen, what was your experience?

Jason Hanley 32:01

Well, I was thinking, I'm surprised we all did this after we did Franklin Mountains last November. Because that race was really painful. It's in El Paso. So it's a Texas mountain. But it still was pretty rough for us. So I think we were all a little crazy to go to Durango to climb a mountain. But I think I tried to prepare well, knowing from that past experience that things can get rougher than you expected. Like I think that race took me maybe 11 hours I don't really know as a 50k. I did. And it took way longer than I expected. So I didn't plan for it as well. And I realized to plan for the worst, Jason always tells me that I plan for the best race and not the worst race. So I tried to plan for the worst this time. And beforehand, I made a drop bag with anything I might need. When I after I finished the 50k loop, I had to go back out and do a 30k loop. So I prepared stuff in there, I put food I put extra clothes, warm clothes, cold clothes, and then just lots of food. And then anything like nail clippers, band aids, anything I might need. Unfortunately, after the first loop, I was so short on time, I forgot and also did not have time to go to my drop bag. But I did make it for that first 50k cut off and the 50k was loop was pretty challenging. I think that brace was challenging for all of us. But it was harder than I expected. And a lot of people were from Colorado or New Mexico. So as from Houston, we're struggling a little bit more than everyone else. And a lot of the races we do we usually see lots of people on the course this was an inaugural race so there were less people. And I feel like it was a little guest difficult to not see as many people and to feel like everyone was going faster than you. So as a big mental challenge. I after mile 22 I got to the horse Gulch aid station. And I decided to take my long sleeve son shirt on off so I had that shirt on to protect me from the sun because we were going to get a lot of sun out there in Colorado, but it was just getting way too hot for it. And luckily with my solemn invest my sports bra and just the vest worked out just fine. I didn't have any shaping. So I was really surprised with all that. But after leaving horse Gulch, the race got more difficult. And we had a very hard climb with these rocks that looked like they belonged in like some kind of aquarium. They were just like nice pebbles that were giant in size and I had to climb up them. Thank God I had my trekking poles and then after that, we got to the ridge line and there were these boulders you had to climb. And I'm sure the fast people just flew over them. But it was a challenge for me. And so at one point, before that I had talked to my coach and I said hey, I think I Make quit. And I think you know, the 50k loop is just going to be enough. And I thought about Sherry And Jason and they were going to be finished. And if I finished, we could just all have fun. And so I was thinking about all of that. And then

Sheri Davidson 35:14

I said that that was the reason why you were going to quit. One

Jason Hanley 35:17

of the reasons I had a lot of support for this DNF I came up with every rationale that worked. One of the rationales was, I haven't had a DNF yet, so I thought this was a great time, like we can celebrate my Indiana like, this will be perfect. It's

such a gorgeous place to quit.

So then I, you know, sat down on this rock, and the view was gorgeous, and I started crying. I'm like, Yep, this is it. I'm going to DNF I'm going to finish this 50k loop, I'm not going back out. Like it's gonna be crazy to have to do 18 minute miles for 18 more miles. That's insane. And so Mike, I had looked at my phone, and my coach sent me a picture of him smiling. And I was like, oh, geez, great. And he texted me something and I said, Hey, I think I'm gonna quit. And he's like, don't let them take you or make them take you off the course. Don't take yourself off the course. And it's something my friend Linda and her husband, Jared have told me before, when I had done a race this earlier this year, I wanted to quit again. I guess it's a common theme. But we're getting back from races after a COVID has just been, I think, a harder mental challenge than before. Because the more you do them, you get comfortable with being in that discomfort. And so I think I'm just having a get comfortable with that again. But anyways, Linden jarred, have told me that before, too, they're like, you don't leave the race, have them take you off the race. And so that made me smile. And I kept going, I saw the photographer had tears in my eyes, it's one of my photos on Instagram. You can't see because I have sunglasses on. But it makes me happy to think I was about to quit. And then I got myself up and kept going. And then after that, I was just chasing, like cut off. I was just running and walking as fast as I could. I made the 50k cut off. And then I when I was out doing the last 18 miles, it was just about finishing. So it was fun to see you guys at home. I think around mile 40 You guys said I was delusional. I was delusionally happy.

Sheri Davidson 37:29

I have pictures.

Jason Hanley 37:31

And a video so. But after I met you guys, I kind of knew Okay, I'm gonna do this. I didn't look at my watch much after that I had just made sure I checked in with the next aid station. They said, Oh, you're you know, you're 30 minutes early, you're great. I did not realize when I like finish the race that I was two minutes from the cut off. So that was a shock. But I did run us as fast as I could as much as I could to finish the race. And I think it was a great experience to struggle and then get over it. So that's the beauty of the race.

Sheri Davidson 38:05

Yeah. And that's life. Yeah, yeah, we all go through difficult times. And we have to learn how to push through and get to the other side. Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I like them builds resiliency builds resilience.

Jason Hanley 38:17

I always tell people that I think Ultra running kind of parallels life. You know, like they say, our art parallels life. And a lot of ways running does the same thing. At these events, you You learn so much about yourself, about what you have in you about how to keep going about how to succeed, bout failure about how to deal with things when when stuffs really, really, really hard. And I think it really builds a character that you take into the other parts of your life with you. To help you do well.

Sheri Davidson 38:53

Yeah, absolutely. That's one of the things I love. I love about it so much. And it's beautiful. And I love I love traveling and doing it. So it's I'm part of that as culture for me. And part of that is I just love traveling and seeing different places. But But yeah, and there's no better way to experience a place and to run through it.

Jason Hanley 39:11

Yeah. Yeah. I've always thought some of the best views I've ever seen. I've been I've been running along and turn the corner and just went whoa. Yeah, because you've got this beautiful view that you just had no idea was going to be there.

Sheri Davidson 39:26

Yeah, surprises you. Yeah, one with nature.

Jason Hanley 39:29

And I love traveling to do a race with friends because it really builds those friendships, Sherry and I and Jason have traveled a few races at least and we got to hang out with our friend Maria and Jerry and Colorado and so just builds on those relationships. It's a shared like unique experience.

Sheri Davidson 39:49

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I have to ask this question because it always comes up for me and Kathleen, I think you said this in the beginning but you are A doctor of public health, and I'm in the health and wellness space. The question I always get when I do these endurance sports is is that healthy for you? Do you get the same question?

Jason Hanley 40:14

I get a similar question I get often a statement, it's not healthy for you. I usually don't say much at the time. Because I'm angry. But I, I agree. And I disagree. I don't think health is really black and white. And I think we who practice in health or public health, no, there's so many dimensions to health. And it's not just what you eat, or it's not just your social network. And it's not, you know, not just your income or your education, like all of that is combined. It's what you what you do what you eat, where you work, your stress levels. And so it's an it's not black and white at all, I do think that the amount of exercise and energy were exerting at a particular ultra marathon is a lot, it's a lot on the body. But we also hopefully try to recover correctly. And one of the train correctly. And my training plan right now is actually pretty low mileage to prevent injury and focus on strength building. And so that's what I really liked about my coaching plan right now. So it's like prevention, what can I do I know I'm, my body's gonna go through a lot. But what can I do before and after to keep it safe. And the other thing I'd say is, I said, health is multi dimensional. And part of that is my mental health and my social health. And doing a race really builds those aspects. So it really builds how I feel mentally, it makes me feel more connected to the earth. And then it also builds my friendships and relationships. And that's a big part of your health, too. And so I think maybe it is taking a lot out of my physical health, my muscles, my body, physically, but it's building these other aspects of health. And so I think there's, in every part of life, we have given take, and I think at that moment of that race, there is a little bit of loss in the physical side, but a lot of gain in the other sides.

Sheri Davidson 42:17

No, I totally agree with that. It is multi dimensional. And it's important that we find these activities that can give back to us and those ways, right? And I think if you train, well, if you listen to your body in your training, and then you you have to go all out race day, right? Like there's no like, there's no pulling back on that day. But also if we don't push our bodies and push our limits, then how do we know what we're capable of and capable of achieving? And so I think in that is, it's if there's a huge game, who was it? I read this somewhere like nobody was slam dunking in basketball. And the minute I don't remember who the first person was, we'd have to look it up. They slam dunk, dunk, everybody was slam dunking, it was like they all of a sudden had this, like this realization that they could do that too. Right. And so that's huge, like to evolve and to move forward in your capabilities. And I think there's a lot to gain in that. Yeah. And visually and as a community.

Jason Hanley 43:18

Yeah, I agree. And I think also, when I say mental health, I don't just mean like health in terms of feeling better at the moment, but building that resiliency from heart moment. So the struggle of the trail race helps me build that strength for other things. And I think we also, you know, set limits on ourselves, we set limits on what we can do, but people are doing 200 milers, there's a lot of people out there doing fk T's. And so we're showing I guess, the world that maybe what we have limited, we can actually surpass

Sheri Davidson 43:54

Yeah. And one day, it'll be normal. You know, and it's like what we do people, a lot of people have a hard time wrapping their head around the distance. But like you said, you ran when you first started, you ran for 30 seconds or until you couldn't run. And then you stopped. Yeah, you just kept building on that and building on that. And then look at you now you're training for your first 200 miler, which a lot of people can't wrap their mind around that distance. But eventually everybody's going to be doing it. Well. Maybe not. I don't have the film. No, they have the capability of doing that. Right. And then what are we going to do?

Jason Hanley 44:28

Yeah, and that's what I hope people can see. Because I did start from nothing. You know, I was out of breath in 30 seconds to be able to do this. I am not that unique other than James would say in the mindset or determination. But I do think a lot of people can do more than they think. And when you think of us running at 30k, a 50k 50 miler. There's a lot of walking involved too. So don't think we're like speeding a 5k race in the trails because it's different. It's very different experience. So me Be even just go watch one of these races, if you want to see the difference and people that are there is it's a lot of different speeds. And

Sheri Davidson 45:09

yeah, yeah, no, I agree with I agree with all of that. So I do get that question. But most people do ask me if it's healthy for me. They don't say what did they say to you?

Jason Hanley 45:20

They told me that it's not healthy. It's not healthy. Yes, it's certainly not healthy.

Sheri Davidson 45:27

Do you ever get asked that?

Jason Hanley 45:29

I do. Get asked that as well. And I mean, I tell them, for me, it's really a mental health thing. It's about getting out and seeing what I'm capable of altra running has taught me that there's not really much of anything you can put on my plate that I can't handle. Yeah, I've dealt with some very difficult times at work. By difficult, I mean, just tons of work and crazy situations post hurricane Harvey and stuff like that. To the actually, in that instance, and I won't really get into all that. But I knew that no matter what I could keep going, because of where I had been and what I had done before. And when other people were tired and wanted a break and things like that, I was able to just say, No, this is important. I need to do this. And just keep, you know, keep going. And it does. It's been a great thing for me professionally at times. But for me, as far as my own mental health, it has been a tremendous help to that. And people, you know, people can say anything's not healthy for you flying is not healthy, there could be a plane crash. I would look at it to like, Okay, well, yeah, I could get injured. But also, if I live a sedentary life, I probably am gonna get injured at some point different. Just yeah, a different injury. So this way, I'm constantly working on things and running does also give me the chance to see if something is out of balance long before. As a matter of fact, I would say as far as my health when I got back to running, after taking years of a hiatus, I found out that my hip wasn't properly aligned and had to have that worked on and stuff from an old injury that I had, and had I not got back to running, that would not have become evident, and probably would have caused me to have some serious issues by this point in my life. Yeah.

Sheri Davidson 47:40

I like it. So what's next? Kathleen, you're training for a big race?

Jason Hanley 47:47

Yeah, I'm training for mo up to 40. I feel like I need to get more confident with announcing that there's a little bit of embarrassment because I'm, I'm excited and proud about it. And I don't want people to think I'm too awesome, because I haven't like, stepped foot there yet. But I am excited, especially just to be a woman who will be out on the course. Doing it. I think that's really exciting. And Jason's going to be there, Corinne and my coach, Tommy is going to be there. So I think we're gonna have a great team and Jason's about to go to another 200. So he'll have all the experience to take with him to help me.

I'm not exactly doing 200 I will be going later on this week, I'll be heading the Tahoe to sweep the Tahoe 200 course. That's tell people what that means. Yeah, that's not exactly with a broom, we don't go behind Leave No Trace, dust off all the footprints. by sweeping the course, it's kind of a safety volunteer position. So we will stay behind whoever the last runners are, to make sure that they make it to the next aid station. And also at the cut off times, simply to make sure we didn't leave anybody out in the middle of the wilderness. And then also, we'll start taking down all of the markings as well as we go to help clean up the course. And it won't be something I'm doing alone. There's a team of us and we kind of break it up. So that we're we are never alone for one but then secondly, that we only have to only have to do a mere 100 or so miles.

Sheri Davidson 49:29

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the benefit of doing that is you do get the experience of it. And then also you get to enter a race. Is that Is that right?

Jason Hanley 49:38

I do. Yeah. Yeah.

Sheri Davidson 49:40

Is it a free entry?

Jason Hanley 49:41

I get a I get a free entry into another one of these 200 milers which is just kind of out there. Yeah, we we haven't none of us have really dabbled in that distance yet. So we're learning that. So it'll be interesting to see and see which one I land in.

Sheri Davidson 49:57

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna be in the Faroe Islands. Nice. I guess the weekend, I'll be coming back two weeks before you take off.

Jason Hanley 50:09

So I'm excited for your adventure.

Sheri Davidson 50:11

I know, I've talked about it a lot on the podcast. But for those of you if you're new, I will be going to the Faroe Islands, the end of August. And I'll be there for two weeks, I'll be there for trout, trout festival. So I will be exploring the islands running for four days, and the last day there's a race. So I'm gonna do that I'm gonna do the half marathon. There's an ultra distance. But I was telling Kathleen on Sunday that I'm a little nervous, because it's a pretty dramatic elevation. And I've already run in Iceland. So I have an idea of what that is like. And it's pretty, pretty difficult. But also, I'm really nervous about the fog drop dropping in. And I don't know how to navigate my way. And the fog. And I've read some, in fact, the lady that I, Inga who I went on the Iceland adventure running adventure with, she guided somebody that was a pro trail runner, and then the fog dropped in. And he wrote an our blog post about it. And he was saying that she navigated them out of it pretty safely. And I was like, oh, no, I don't know how to do that. And I assume it'll be very similarly, there won't be a lot of people doing the, the, the Ultra,

Jason Hanley 51:28

you know, and I think it's really okay, when you go on some of these big adventures that we go on so far away places to do something that, you know, is definitely reasonable. Yeah, especially when you're out there, pretty much by yourself, you don't have a you know, a team of local people or friends that you know, or something like that. And part of it should be about enjoyment, it doesn't always have to be about like trying to do the biggest thing you could ever accomplish. In a day, that's where it kind of goes back to our own health, right?

Sheri Davidson 51:59

Yeah. Well, and why I do it. Part of it is I love traveling and running. And I love exploring through running. And so I think it fulfills kind of checks those boxes, but I can't say that competitive side of me, it's like, I don't really want that distance. Like I really wouldn't be able to say I did that. Right. But, um, but I'm gonna save it for another, another race. It'll be fine. But I totally agree with you. Okay, what else? I guess we should probably think about wrapping this up. But I have one more question for you guys. And this is for the listeners. What would you say to the listeners that are struggling with an exercise routine? What would you have any advice for them any tips? Because we've all been there?

Jason Hanley 52:45

Yeah, I so I did my dissertation on physical activity and sedentary behaviors, one of my big research interests. But I would say that I sometimes I don't like the term exercise, because I feel like people think about it negatively. Right. That's why I always say Exercise and Movement. Yeah. So I love the idea of movement. And I tell people who are you know, struggling with moving, moving is gardening moving is walking to your car parking farther away from the grocery store. Moving is doing indoor walking video. And so there's a lot of different types of movement. So I would say to find something you enjoy. Think about the things in your life or in your past and your childhood, that were ways you moved that brought fun to your life. And because that's what trails do to me, they make me feel like a kid, right? So I'm in love with them, I enjoy it. I enjoy going on a trail, run or hike. If it's something you don't like, it's going to be so hard to do. So just find that thing. And it's okay to experiment. It's okay to be nervous at first. I have attended some like a Zumba class once, and I was not good at all. And I was so nervous about going and it was fun moving. But it wasn't the right movement for me. And I think everyone has different kinds of movement that are right for them that they enjoy. So they don't have to compare themselves to anyone but find something that they like, and it doesn't matter what anyone else says.

Sheri Davidson 54:18

I agree with that. 100%. And I think one of the things I'm going to pull out of what you said is to try if you try something and it doesn't work, try it again. Because I think it's so important, right? It's like people, they feel like okay, I should go for a run, right? Because that's what everybody else is doing. And that's what I know. If that doesn't work for you, you're not going to stick with it. And so if that doesn't work, if you go for that run and it doesn't work, then try something else. Maybe go for a walk with your your significant other or maybe garden like you said or just keep trying things because eventually you're going to find something that fulfills you in a way that you can stick to it on a regular bases.

Jason Hanley 55:00

Yeah, and there's multiple ways to do something and multiple instructors out there, I've gone to several yoga classes where I would think I wasn't incapable of doing anything. And then you have another yoga instructor or type of yoga, where you're like, wow, I can do this, I enjoy this. So I would also say, to find different people out there to guide you or different instructors, because everyone's different, they have different opinions. And that's okay. But I guarantee you, there's someone out there that can help you find the right movement. that's right for you.

Sheri Davidson 55:31

Yeah, that you'll keep doing over and over again.

Jason Hanley 55:36

I, Kathleen, I think you bring up kind of a great point there. Recently, my sister started trying to do a regular walking regimen again. And she was having an issue with what we think is probably shin splints, right. And I say this because I think stuff like this happens for a whole whole lot of people, they get out and they start trying to do something, and then they have an issue going on, that they didn't know existed. So one thing I know from running that we'll find is you exacerbate these issues that you didn't really realize were issues. And a lot of cases, people just say I can't, I can't do that. And that's not really the case. What we already know. And what my sister is talking to myself and Kathleen about is that there's probably a weak muscle somewhere that she hasn't been activating that she needs to figure out what to do with it. So I would say to not only find something that you think you'll be able to enjoy, but if it starts out that there, there's just some kind of problem. And it's it's more than difficult, something seems like it's, you know, really hurting, like reach out to people that you know, to try to figure out what you can do about it. Yeah, because it could be as simple as a cheesy little exercise that seems like you're doing a whole lot of nothing that takes seems to take next to no energy. And the next thing you know, all of that is completely better.

Sheri Davidson 57:06

Well, and especially for people who have been out of movement routine for a long time, you're going to have some weaknesses, right, somewhere, whatever activity you you do, you're probably going to have some you're going to have some growing pains and trying to get the strength to do that activity. If you've been inactive. Yeah, so I agree. Like, all right, well, I guess that's a good place to wrap it up. You guys have any other comments, or

Jason Hanley 57:38

thank you for having us on.

So fun.

Sheri Davidson 57:42

And Kathleen is going to come back on I'm sure you guys will meet Jason and Kathleen again, but I know Kathleen is going to come back on and we're going to talk about the we're going to talk about your

Jason Hanley 57:52

was that your thesis? Yeah. Well, I wanted to talk about my dissertation dissertation, and then just my background in sedentary behavior and physical activity research. So I think some of that, yeah, that'd be good.

Sheri Davidson 58:04

That'd be really good. Okay, well, thank you for coming. Thank you, Sherry. Thank you. Bye, bye.

Well, that was it. So what did you guys think they are two of my favorite people. And I really enjoy spending time with them on or off the trial. So I hope you enjoyed our conversation too, and enjoyed them. Just a quick recap, before we wrap it up here. It is critical to find movement that you enjoy doing if you want to make sustainable change in your life. So make it your mission to try different activities until you find a fit for you. If you're doing classes, try different instructors. There is someone out there that is right for you an activity that is a perfect fit for you. And if you're just starting out, be patient, you might have some aches and pains. If you do reach out to someone because it could be an easy fix. Don't give up easily, especially if you enjoy it. And one last thought before we go remember the advice from Kathleen's coach and friends. Don't take yourself off the course. Let them take you off the course you just keep going, I think is a great weight in this podcast. If you want to keep up with Kathleen and Jason's running adventures, you can follow them on Instagram and I will put the link in the show notes. All right. Well, let me know your thoughts. As always, if you like what you hear, please subscribe to the podcast and share it with your family and friends. You can also give me a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast. It helps others find me as well. To get updates on new episodes and wellness inspiration in your inbox. Please join the wellness inspired community. Go to the wellness inspired podcast.com to sign up and I'll put the link in shownotes to make it easy for you to click and go. Also, I have a Facebook community at the Wellness inspired and you can follow me on Instagram at wellness underscore inspired. If you're in the Houston area or visiting and interested in acupuncture, herbal medicine, cupping, and dry needling therapy, contact us. You can find out more on our website at element five oh m.com. I'll put the link in the show notes as well. If you're interested in health and wellness coaching, we can connect in the clinic or on Zoom. Reach out to us and we'll get you on the schedule. And as always, I would love Love, love, love, love to hear your feedback. I am dedicated to bringing you great content that is inspiring and informative with an artsy fun and edgy spin. Thank you so much for listening. We'll meet here again next time. And remember, never stop exploring, learning loving and being you Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai